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RECENT POSTS

May 30, 2005: & Guest
Jan 01, 2005: Pre-Nups
Dec 18, 2004: Marriage Prep 101 Workshop
Oct 17, 2004: Surviving the journey to the alter!
Oct 16, 2004: Decisions, Decisions, Decisions
Oct 01, 2004: Tastings
Sep 27, 2004: My boyfriend's a homosexual!
Sep 02, 2004: A or B? Or how about C?
Aug 24, 2004: Budget Freak Out
Jun 26, 2004: Our first milestones
Jun 24, 2004: Finding the wedding location
May 22, 2004: Adventures with dress shopping

May 30, 2005: & Guest

Shane: This is a topic that we've discussed with several friends over the past months, and it has also been a focus on some of the wedding forums, such as www.theknot.com. Since it's been at the top of our minds lately, I thought we might write a journal about it.

If you talk to any bride & groom, they will probably tell you that one of the hardest things about wedding planning is the guest list and the realization that you can't invite every contact in your phonebook. Well, I suppose you could if you A) had more money than you knew what to do with, or B) had no problem going in major debt over one day.

I had always assumed that when you invite a single friend or family member to a wedding you include "& Guest". Our early passes at a guest list made us quickly realize that we were idealizing a wedding way beyond our means -- the comparisons of "new car or wedding", "new house or wedding" come to mind. Our Guest List stress certainly started early and has continued.

During the first meeting with our wedding coordinator, she gave us a perspective that made a few things clearer. We were going to have to make some hard decisions in order to work within our budget. Her advice went something like this - "Do you want to invite a friend's guest that you have never met instead of inviting one of your other friends?" and then she took our rough wedding budget and put a dollar figure on the cost of that extra guest. It seems impersonal and analytical, but it made things a little clearer.

We had to make some decisions. We decided to only invite children from our immediate family -- otherwise we wouldn't have a flower girl. This part is a bit sad because our location is great for kids to run around and play, but kids count as people too and push us over our limit. Then we also decided that we wouldn't include guests of friends and family that weren't in a serious relationship. And even then, we still aren't able to invite everyone we would like to be there.

So as we looked at our stack of invites, there wasn't a single one with "& Guest" on the envelope, instead they were addressed to the names of the invited parties. I'm sure this will cause a few people to have hurt feelings, but it's not our intent. We're just making the tough decisions needed to have the wedding within our means.

Jan 01, 2005: Pre-Nups

Shane: Why is it that Pre-Nups generate such a reaction from some people? "Aren't you assuming it will fail?" "You must have money." Most reactions are negative. Interesting enough, Ava and I are both in favor of exploring a pre-nup. My views are that in most business relationships you should have a contract in place that defines the terms and you hope you never have to break it out to negotiate. The process of reviewing the contract and understanding the terms helps each party understand what's involved. And even though the important part of a marriage is between the two people, the reality is that a marriage has legal implications and involves the state.

Ava wanted a pre-nup to define child custody (that each shares custody) in the case of a divorce. After some initial research, I don't think a pre-nup can define custody for a child that doesn't exist. But we can lay out the process of determining custody IF needed. We also both agreed that what's "his is his and hers is hers". Basically, what we bring into the relationship remains ours -- both assets and debt. Which is the basis of marriages in California.

After doing some initial reading on Pre-Nups (thanks to Nolo Press www.nolopress.com), I think every couple should consider it. Until you know what you can and can't do with a pre-nup, you can't know if it's right for you or not. And the terms of a pre-nup aren't always about what happens in a divorce. It includes death as well.

Some key points that I've gathered include: property differs depending on which state you live in. So the assets (and debt) that you have when you get married are treated different in California than in Virginia. And IF you get divorced, how property is divided could depend on your current state of residency (not your state of marriage). Unless you address it in your pre-nup.

Once again, there are many things that will get discussed if you consider a pre-nup. There is tremendous value just in the discussion. Even though the months from engagement to wedding vows are stressful and busy, you should at least read enough to know what is actually involved in a pre-nup. Don't depend on your preconceived notions -- find out first hand.

Dec 18, 2004: Marriage Prep 101 Workshop

Shane: A few weeks ago Ava and I attended a pre-marital workshop called Marriage Prep 101 (www.marriageprep101.com). The idea was mostly mine. I figured that many couples go through marriage counseling when they have problems and many times they wait too long. So why not attend a non-religious, skills-based workshop that is primarily focused on couples communication? We could reinforce our good habits and learn some new ones.

Before she agreed, Ava wanted to know what it was about. I told her "We'll learn some things, go over some areas, and then they'll give you a list of things you need to change." I said it with a serious tone just to see if I could get a reaction. There was a few seconds of a delay, but I got a reaction.

The course met for 3 hours on Friday night and all day on Saturday. There were about 20 couples in the course. Most were engaged, one or two were already married, and one or two were thinking about engagement. It was great to spend 10 hours focused on communication. Things are always so busy and hectic to really focus on the process of talking things out. The instructors spent a lot of time talking about their experiences. And it was good to know that many of our frustration points are pretty typical.

It was also interesting to see how past experiences (family, relationships, friends) come into play. And after discussions (they were called 'exercises') understanding how these things come into play changed my reaction to some of the things that bug me.

All in all a great experience and well worth the time. I recommend it for any couple that is open to working on their relationship. Anything worth having takes work -- love isn't any different.

Oct 17, 2004: Surviving the journey to the alter!

Ava: Ok, I lied on the planning a wedding together thing! I've decided that just saying "Honey, just fork over the cash and I'll see you at the alter" is a better approach :)

Well, OK, maybe not – I'm starting to learn and cope w/ Shane's idiosyncrasies. I've started to notice patterns in his behavior and have consequently learned how to deal and approach some of them.

A typical vendor selection for us these days goes something like this:

1. Ava does research and preliminary interviews about vendor X
2. Shane freaks out about price quotes from said vendor
3. Ava gets on the defensive as Shane takes the offensive on how things couldn't possibly cost that much for so little.
4. Ava gets feelings hurt and withdraws while Shane continues mumbling and growling in his head over price-tags.
5. Ava gives Shane his mandatory (by her calculations) acceptance period (these days about 11/2 weeks) and then approaches topic again.
6. Shane has now had some time to go over the 5 stages of loss (of money) and resumes civilized discussion.

I think we're doing ok! [nervous laugh]

Oct 16, 2004: Decisions, Decisions, Decisions

Shane: The last month we've been in full wedding planning mode. What's that like you ask? It starts with phone calls to screen the vendors and to get information on their services. Then we go TO them to meet and talk about things. Then we translate their proposals to something we can understand in order to compare the proposals to each other. It gets overwhelming!!! Just when you think you've made enough decisions for the week, you realize how many more there are to make.

We started with the high priority vendors and at any one time we were booking meetings with one type of vendor while we were starting to phone screen another type. All the while keeping an eye on the budget to see how we can reduce costs -- if you aren't always trying to reduce costs, the costs will magically skyrocket.

Many people have asked, how are things going? I typically answer with the list of vendors that we have decided on. So here goes the list -- I'll start with the things we decided many months ago because it makes me feel like we've done more.

Location - Nestldown
Wedding Coordinator - Marcia Joyner
Ava's Dress - Discount Bridal Service
Photographer - Augie Chang
Caterer - Restaurant-O
Cake - Margaret's French Bakery
DJ - Adrian Cavlan, Sound in Motion
Video - Kyle DePriest, Sound in Motion

The list doesn't seem so long now. Maybe if I should add some of the stuff that is In Progress. We've also researched hotels in Los Gatos, looked at favors, started researching prenups, and starting thinking about the ceremony and vows.

The next big vendors are the bartender and the florist. Ava has done all of the initial calls and meetings for the florist on her own. Mostly it was easier for her to book the meetings during the week when I had a hard time getting down south. I think she also thought I might slow her down with my decision making process, oops, bomb diffusing skills.

Florists are another area where costs are all over the place. Basically if you tell the florist what your budget is, you can bet they aren't going to give you a proposal below that cost. If you have $5,000 to spend on flowers, they can spend it. I like flowers, but can't see spending a ton of money on them when we will be surrounded by a beautiful location. So we're still discussing flowers.

Oct 01, 2004: Tastings

Shane: Most of the time over the last month has been spent on the caterer and the cake vendors. After the location, food was the most important item for the wedding event, so we knew that selecting the caterer would be an important decision. The tastings are really one of the best parts of the wedding planning. If you like being pampered, then tastings are up your alley. But you have to work your way to a tasting by reading menus, picking out items, reviewing items with your spouse-to-be, and agreeing on a starting menu for the tasting. And remember this is a menu for your guests, not just for you.

All of the vendors are close to the wedding location. The drive is about an hour, so most of the meetings have been on the weekends. We planned the cake tastings on Saturday mornings -- a nice weekend breakfast. I'm not a big dessert person, but these cakes are great! Tiramisu cake, Chocolate Raspberry Mousse, Lemon Creme, Carrot Cake, Hazelnut Torte, Strawberry Grand Marnier (my fav). After we selected the bakery, we had to narrow the selections down to three - one for each tier of the cake. We think we've selected three flavors that will satisfy most of the guests. But if they don't, oh well, we'll enjoy it! Yum, Yum!!!

The caterer tastings we planned toward the evening or around lunch time. This is where you get personal attention. You know when you go to a restaurant and can't decide which dish to order? Here they bring you all the options. Three or Four different hors d'oeuvres, 3 or 4 different entrees, salads. It's all great. We even went back for a 2nd tasting with one of the caterers to explore more options -- it ended up being the one we selected. The caterer decisions don't stop at food either. They break out the table clothes (colors, patterns, textures, sizes -- head spinning), the plate options (white, white with gold, white with silver, black, round, square, triangle -- head keeps spinning), flatware (are any of our guests going to notice the flatware), glassware (will hold a good drink? Then it's just fine). Actually since neither Ava or I really cared too much about the flatware, plates, and glasses, those decisions went quickly.

To give you the full picture and to balance the great experiences we had with two caterers, you should know we had a not-so-great experience with one. They were very hesitant to plan a tasting for us. Ava spent time on the phone with them selecting menu items. We even met with them for an hour in a face to face meeting. After that we qualified for a tasting - literally that's what they said. But booking it proved a bit more difficult - they didn't do tastings on the weekends and it seemed they preferred to do them with several couples at a time. Before we could do a tasting with them, we already had tastings with the other caterers and even the second tasting with one. In the end, we never actually held a tasting with them. If it was that hard to book a tasting, we were worried that planning all the details of the event would prove even more frustrating.

In the end, we felt very comfortable with the staff, food, and experience of Restaurant O. The food choices we have selected made us really look forward to our reception dinner.

The menu is pretty much set now as well. I've thought for years that a vegetarian reception would be great. After getting weird looks from servers at wedding receptions when asking for the veggie option and then getting served bad pasta with a bland sauce, it would be great to let hard core meat eaters taste good veggie dishes. After a discussion with a wedding pro, we were convinced that going all veggie wouldn't be the best idea, but our selections are heavy on the veggie options.

We've selected four appetizers - Caprino (goat cheese and roasted red peppers on Italian toast), Caprese (buffalo mozzarella, tomato, pesto on Italian toast), Ahi Tuna with Maui Onions and Caviar on potato crisp, Crispy Risotto Balls with Mozzarella.

Two salad choices. Both are great - Spinach with tomato, Portobello mushrooms, pine nuts, and balsamic vinaigrette AND Mixed baby greens with sliced roasted pear, gorgonzola, toasted hazelnuts, dry cranberries, and apple-citrus vinaigrette.

Three entree choices - Chicken breast with lemon, caper, and white wine sauce, Pasta filled with Butternut squash, baby spinach, and ricotta cheese with hazelnut butter, Portobello Mushroom Tower with garlic mashed potatoes, grilled red pepper, mozzarella, crisp leeks, with roasted red pepper sauce.

Sep 27, 2004: My boyfriend's a homosexual!

Ava: The story goes something like this:

Shane and I have decided to attend wedding counseling courses. We're attending a week-end long seminar in November and in preparation we were asked to take an online relationship evaluation. We were to complete it individually, and the application would take our responses and create a RELATE evaluation.

So here we are, each on our own computer (nerd love, how cute!) filling this thing out. At one point, I looked over to Shane's computer and noticed a response on his behalf that I felt really needed some discussion around. The discussion goes something like this:

Ava:	Umn, Hon, is there something you want to tell me?
Shane:	[looks closer at monitor] No!
Ava:	Are you sure?
Shane:	Yeah!
Ava:	So when were you going to tell me that you have homosexual preferences?
Shane:	What?
Ava:	Right there! Under sexual preference, you answered "Homosexual".
Shane:	Oh? No! What I thought that meant was... you know... those people that
don't want to be in many relationships.
Ava:	You mean monogamy?
Shane:	Yeah, that!

Yeah, so… you heard it here folks! My boyfriend - the monogamist (homosexual) :

PS. I wonder if I hadn't caught that what the final evaluation would have read?

PPS. Wonder how your relationship stacks up? We've had a few people ask for the website, so check it out yourselves: https://www.relate-institute.org

Sep 02, 2004: A or B? Or how about C?

Ava: I have come to the realization that all "to-be-wed" couples MUST plan their wedding together! I've been a strong proponent of pre-marital cohabitation and found weird anyone who felt otherwise. Now, I have added one more "must" to the list.
I thought I'd gotten to know Shane… and myself… pretty well up over the last 4 years, but ever since the "planning" officially kicked off I've come to find that there are so many things that are yet to be brought to light.

The issue at hand is choices. Moreover, it's how we come to these choices that has been educational. Meeting someone you're compatible with, as it turns out, doesn't stop at "I like blue! You like blue too? Sweeet!" Apparently there's a fair amount of process that's involved here. Case in point: Me - I have always known myself to be an impatient person. To be honest, I think this will be my greatest downfall. I make decisions fast! Do basic research, make a decision, then look for more information to validate said decisions (sometimes).

And then, you have Shane - prepare for research, then research, then research again, make a decision mentally, sleep on it, research some more and then commit to the choice. To someone like me, I lost my attention span 4 comma's ago :-)
I duly coined him a new nickname. I now lovingly refer to him as "my little bomb diffuser". It came out of a frustrated comment that if we (all) relied on him to diffuse a bomb by having to pick the red or the blue wire, we'd all be dead.

The experience as whole has been quite educational (and thus rewarding). I've learned that although I don't grasp his decision making process, and probably vice-versa, at least I can respect it and try to be patient, while giving him his space to do his thing. We've got many more decisions coming up: our first home together, kids... the rest of the wedding for God's sake...

Aug 24, 2004: Budget Freak Out

Shane: So the remodel is completed, and we have moved back into our loft. After a week of unpacking, it was time for me to start thinking about wedding plans again. I hadn't looked at any wedding info for two months. When I reviewed the wedding budget spreadsheet, my stomach did flip flops and twisted into a knot. I'm not sure how long it will be before I accept the cost of producing a Bay Area wedding. So it's now time to do more research, some detailed discussions with Ava, and soul searching. I'm starting to see why many Bay Area weddings are much smaller than weddings in Virginia. It's becoming so very obvious that Ava and I make decisions differently. I prefer to pour over the data and explore options. Ava likes to make decisions a little faster.

Jun 26, 2004: Our first milestones

Ava: It has been now a little over two months since we got engaged. We started off thinking that we were just going to take things slow and work things out as they came along… but that quite quickly changed.

Note to newly engaged couples: if you're remodeling your apartment while planning a wedding, tings will take their own course!
For a while we though that we'd finish with the renovations before we get started with the wedding, but after calculating how long that could take, we didn't feel too comfortable with how little time we could be left with.

We had a few questions we needed answered: which coast (driven by cost, availability and ease), and when. To determine if East Coast was the place to be, we needed to eliminate out side of the country. We had three possible locations: Bay Area, Napa and Tahoe. So the research spring began. We had one week-end, the Sat of which we moved south all the way to Santa Cruz, and the Sunday of which we moved north to Napa.

I had always images that Napa would be the place for a wedding… and it could be, if you had 15K just to throw at the location. We were shocked to see how much you spend and how little you get out of it. Annadel Winery by far took the cake with a ~ 7K fee where they provided nothing other than the walls of a burned down winery. Now granted, with all the right lighting it is a beautiful place, but you had to bring in your own bathrooms!

In the end it came down to three places - Nestldown, Thomas Fogerty Winery and Trenandu - amazingly enough the placed we had in mind before we scouted hem in person. All were within our price-range and didn't require us to plan an East Coast wedding. Between the three Nestldown won out - it was: 1.) beautiful; 2.) close to the freeway; 3.) in an area which provided out of town guests with a variety of attractions (other than wine tasting); 4.) didn't require us to be done by 9pm.

The date was easier to pick once we had the location down. We had a few tentative dated in mind Aug. 6th is Kelle's (Shane's sister's) birthday. I didn't feel comfortable picking that date with out talking to her first; making she she's OK with it. Shane was certainly excited - anything to help him remember both holidays was a good thing!

So now we had a date, and a location. Next? Well, we decided to work with a planner. Nestldown gives a discount when couples work with a planner. We spoke to one of the women on their list and realized that she was really great and would make our lives considerably easier (esp. on the day of). So as we signed out paperwork of Nestldown, we also hired Marcia with A Joyous Occasion. So now we're sitting pretty comfortable. The renovations are well underway, and we have a few big items under our belt. We've pooled all our resources together (good when you're marrying after most of your friends) - we have spreadsheets galore, a macros-out task sheet (thank you nerd-learnings) and a couple of accounts with the generic online places (the knot, weddingchannel). We're a little ahead of schedule now and hope to keep it that was as best possible.

It's coming together, and so far it's looking good!

Jun 24, 2004: Finding the wedding location

Shane: I naively thought that we would get engaged and then sit back for several months before we did any planning. We were getting started on remodeling our loft, so I wanted to focus on the remodel before we did any wedding stuff. We needed to determine if we wanted an east or west coast wedding. This required that we at least start looking at locations. Before you can find a location, you need a good estimate of the size of the wedding. And it snowballed from there.

After many web searches, "Here Comes the Guide" reviews, and recommendations from friends, we prepared a list of potential locations. Ava mapped out the locations and made appointments with as many as possible. We spent one day towards the south and one day in Sonoma. I think we looked at 30 different locations. After a while we were able to make a decision within the first 5 minutes of checking out a place. They were all so different!

It was fun checking out places, but it was tiring! Lots of driving!

After that weekend, it was actually pretty easy to narrow down our choices to three. And since it was 14 months before the wedding, all of the places were available for our preferred date. Even though it was a bit over our targeted budget (which was more of an estimate at that point), the natural beauty and uniqueness of Nestldown (www.nestldown.com) won us over. So the contracting signing started.

May 22, 2004: Adventures with dress shopping

Ava: Whoever said that bridal dress shopping is fun either has a ton of time on their hands and nerves of steel, or their idea of "fun" is seriously twisted.

My personal view on this topic is that although I'd like to find dress that's beautiful, it's also a garment I will only wear once! I started off thinking that my max budget will be around $700 (its not like I've bought one of these before, what do I know), and then following some conversations with recent brides came to realize that number was quite unrealistic - heart palpitation 1.

At this point I started thinking "I'm going to Bulgaria in a few months - maybe I can find something there and use the currency conversion to my advantage." However given that I only have 9 days while there I better go in knowing what I want and what works on me.

So enter in US research! Online research is overwhelming - thousands of options! After a while they all start to look the same.

Next was in-store review. Heart palpitations 2-10! The first place I walked into succeeded in starting me on a panic attach path within the first 15 min. Their store had hundreds of unique dressed, where you were invited to spend some time picking out te few dressed you'd like to try on. They were all in bad! They were all different! It was hard to tell anything apart, let alone picture what it looked like. Of anything that day I am extremely grateful that I had Anne with me. Her presence and opinion made a huge difference in keeping me calm.

I think I tried on over 30 gowns that day and I managed to narrow it down to 3 that I liked (thanks to Trudy's Brides)… which was no small feat.

Over the next few days, I spent some time calling around for some price comparisons. Stefanie pointed me towards Discount Bridal Service. Since their reps don't work out of show-rooms, their gowns easily cost over $300 less. So now all the dresses I liked are happily within my original $700 buget. I feel happy and confident with my options. The trip to Buglaria can only help out with this decision.

So here are the picks to date: Maggie Sottero's Avalon, St. Patrick's 5821, and Maggie Sottero's Grace. That's as much as you get : -- the final choice you'll find out next year.